Today I sparred with a Thai guy in his 20's that supposedly had 5 fights under his belt and just fought two weeks ago at Thapae stadium. He came in really cocky telling Chon (the co-owner of the gym) how good he is and that he wanted to train here. Without knowing any of this, I ended up sparring with the guy and was instantly shocked on how terrible he was. Don't get me wrong, it's okay to be a beginner, I spar with beginners all the time and learn from each other. But this guy was doing straight up Karate Kid meets Taekwondo moves. He was using single forearm low blocks (basically using your arm in a downwards motion to block a kick) which would have broken his arm if I wasn't kicking lightly, totally ignoring jabs or punches to the face, since Taekwondo tournaments don't allow it, and then he did something that I cannot believe.....I swear to god he learned this from street fighter 4 or something. I'll tell you in a second but first, here's a video I found on Youtube of a typical Taekwondo Black Belt vs. a Muay Thai Fighter.
Warning, you might end up wasting hours watching random TKD vs. Muay Thai videos, but most of them are exactly the same. Basically, the Taekwondo guy spends all day learning fancy hypothetical kicks that seldom get pulled off in a real fight because of range. In a real fight, a guy will punch you in the face first, and then maybe kick you as you are backing away. Karate is slightly better but there are stupid rules like the one where you can only throw straight punches.
The three reasons why Muay Thai is real and all other martial arts are bullshit::
1. Muay Thai does't have stupid rules - Muay Thai rules are as close to real life fights as possible with the exception of grappling on the ground. You can punch anywhere and any way you like, knee, elbow, and kick, and attack while clinching. TKD, Karate, Kung Fu all have stupid rules like no kicking someone's legs, punching in the face, and none of them allow knees or elbows.
2. There are no belts in Muay Thai - Belts and rankings are bullshit. A 12 year old kid can have a Taekondo Black Belt, that's just embarrassing to your sport. What does memorizing a 44 step hypothetical form have anything to do with fighting? Most gyms only use the belt ranking system to get you to invest more years and money into their gym, since it feels like you are improving and working towards a goal. The only martial art with a Gi and Belt System that is actually legit is Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu.
3. You actually spar and fight in Muay Thai - No one asks what belt you are in Muay Thai, they ask how many fights you've had. You're also expected to spar at almost every class. And even though you don't go 100% while sparring, it's close to the real thing and you don't learn bad habits because of it. You're forced to put into practice what you learned, and you quickly realize that the basics work, and they work well. Full Contact Continuous and Sanda rules are more similar to Muay Thai Rules.
So you might not believe this, because I sure the hell didn't. But Thai guy I sparred with today, you know, the Thai Karate kid, actually did an Akuma Power up on me in the middle of sparring. I shit you not, he went into the stance, put his arms, knuckles up by his waist, channeled energy for a few seconds and then attempted to deliver the most projected kick in the history of Muay Thai. I literally saw it coming twenty seconds before he threw it, but it was so powerful that it knocked me down! Just kidding, I checked it.
I'm by no means the best at sparring or fighting but I don't do stupid shit I learned from TV or movies, and I don't waste my time practicing flying triple aero kicks, or even spinning kicks when I should be mastering the basics. What I love about Muay Thai is that it's honest and unpretentious. If you come in with an ego, someone will quickly knock it out of you. Muay Thai is one of the only Martial Arts that actually works in real life and in MMA and UFC. Sure there are one or two guys in the world like GSP and Lyoto Machida that make Karate work, but that's only because they modify it for MMA. Georges St. Pierre doesn't even train karate anymore, his boxing coach is Freddie Roach, his Muay Thai coach is Phil Nurse and in his last fight with Carlos Conduit he trained with Yod Wilek from Tiger Muay Thai.
My hatred began when I was 12 and got sucked into taking a $99 summer special in Hapkido. We spent all day learning katas, hypothetical defenses, pressure points that don't work, and never sparred. Even at that age I knew it was bullshit. I wish I would have started learning either Muay Thai or Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu at that age, but because of Hapkido I was put off on all Martial Arts and assumed they were all just as stupid.
What are your thoughts and experiences on Taekwondo, Karate, Kung Fu vs. Muay Thai?
Hey Johnny, Ed from HK here. In my younger years, I learnt several martial arts including TKD/Kung Fu/Karate/Wing Chun from my father and his friends who were avid martial artists. I never learnt Muay Thai. However, from a few unfortunate experiences of real fighting, the only styles I ever felt was effective was Wing Chun and possibly Krav Maga because it focused a lot on redirecting your opponents energy (even though they might be stronger/bigger than you), and then blowing a potentially lethal blow on vital organs of your opponent. Devastatingly effective for a street fight. I agree the belt system is bullshit lol.
ReplyDeleteThe problem with martial arts that teach you how to redirect energy and deliver lethal blows to vital organs is that it's all hypothetical, you never actually spar or fight using these techniques for real. It's easy to see it working hypothetically, or when you take turns doing it to each other, but in a real fight it's completely different, which is exactly why most martial arts are bullshit.
DeleteI used to think Krav Maga was good, since it was a bit more realistic and hardcore, but at the end of the day, you still never spar or fight for real, it's still hypothetical bullshit.
During travel in South America....2 guys larger/bigger than me tried to mug me (one with a knife, the other unarmed). I was able to strike both in the face with followups to the nose/chin/face easily. Perhaps it was luck - they were not trained fighters - but I maintain it's because of my time (>10 years) training Wing Chun that gave me confidence and muscle memory/reflexes to strike back. NO TEKKAN POWER UP involved LOL, but it was very swift and fluid motions.
DeleteThat said, I had my first lesson in Muay Thai today...I feel it's more effective WITH much less training hours than any other martial art I learnt...and that's probably why it takes lead over other martial arts.
BTW, I was disqualified multiple times in TKD competitions (ten years ago) for a) striking a down opponent b) striking lower abdomen c) striking back of an opponents head and d) striking an opponent in the face. This is why I gave up competition training...because it was such horseshit. I didn't know there was this thing called MMA until recently...
Ed
Ed, for sure 10 years of any martial arts training would help in a situation like that. But I would say it was more of your competition experience than the actual training itself. A guy could do 10 years of Martial arts training but if they never competed they would still freeze up and not know what to do.
DeleteI just watched a Wing Chung vs Karate video and thought the Wing Chung techniques were definitely better than karate but at the same time the Wing Chung guy spent tons of energy vs. what he would have it if was muay thai. And then when it went to the ground, if he knew some BJJ he would have mounted the guy easily and finished the fight there.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1f7td8Hc-V4
I think you hit it spot on with your thoughts on Muay Thai. The reason why it's good is because it's effective with much less training hours, and that's because they don't teach you a bunch of bullshit. Muay Thai really is just a couple basic punches and one or two kicks, plus basic elbows and knees. There is probably a total of moves in Muay Thai, in which you practice daily on pads, on the bag, and then most importantly on each other.
I'm glad that your training helped you in S. America and I'm glad you found MMA. =)
LMAO, the sparring recount with dragon ball Z had my dying Johnny. I've never done any other martial arts besides Muay Thai so guess can count myself lucky. But I def wish I started earlier.
ReplyDeleteI was watching UFC Primetime and it was kewl when they showed the footage of Kru Yod training GSP in Montreal.
Aight, I'm gonna ask my kru to teach me the "hy-yuuuuukun" move at class tonight, lol.
hey - i only hope there is footage of this
ReplyDeleteHere's GSP's training video with the guy at TMT if you haven't seen it already: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=yvnSQYb1FqU
ReplyDeleteThanks for posting up the padwork video with GSP, great to see that.
DeleteAwesome! especially the fact that one of GSP's trainers. langsomkram(tall thai dude with a mustache walking around the ring) set fire to my chest hair with a lighter once...
DeleteDavid "Phom Yao"
I mostly agree with this article. Nowadays I train Thaiboxing.
ReplyDeleteI have a Jiu JItsu and (don't kill me) wing chun (no don't kill me) background.
In Jiu Jitsu we did some sparring but that wasn't impressive. In the Wing Chun school where I trained we actually did a lot of sparring with small MMA-ish gloves, that served me rather well actually.
But until I entered a Thaiboxing Gym I never knew how it was to *really^ spar. What a huge difference, Muay Thai really rocks, kicks ass and it so much more fun to do. And I am not only talking about sparring, but also about padwork, bagtraining etc. If Thaiboxing would be a pretty woman, I would easily fall in love :-)
Bert, Netherlands
I totally agree with you for most of the martial art thing. Its mainly the semi contact rules that screw things up in my mind, TKD, and almost every form of karate uses semi contact rules.
ReplyDeleteThen you have some forms of karate (mainly kyokushin) that have full contact karate rules.
Kyokushin was a great benefit for me before coming to Thailand, our rules are no gloves and no punches to the face(kicks and knees are allowed). This trains you in dishing out some mean bodyblows and teaches you how to take them. Also the low kicks are bar to none.
But.. Kyokushin has katas as well and im not to fond of them, also you have the "no hits to the face" barrier you have to pass.
But all in all because my trainer didn't like katas and mainly trained for kyokushin fights it was a great. Also after my stay in Thailand we started having regular K-1 ruled sparing matches, inviting MMA coaches, training and competing with and against the local kick-boxing club.
Basically Martial arts sucks unless you have an open minded coach whom likes to punch people in the face and sees that if a majority of your students wants to punch people in the face like they did in K-1, let them.
David "Phom Yao"
I've been sparring in muay thai and boxing and I've found taekwondo and wingchun to be pretty useful. I find that when I do something unexpected, it works pretty well. I find that taekwondo really developed my footwork. The snappy lead roundhouse is faster than the switch kick and I like to use both to throw off the rhythm. The back kick works well. Generally speaking, I think taekwondo also is great training to make someone able to kick at all because it's tough to develop kicking when you're already old and punching is so much easier. That being said, most taekwondo guys just fall apart with any kind of pressure and they can't maintain their distance and range.
ReplyDeleteWingchun is good for midrange punches and I use it to punch between the gloves when my jab keeps hitting the gloves and when my opponent is trying to throw hooks in the pocket, chain punches are fast and powerful from close range. The way wing chun steps forward can really throw off a guy who expects you to just come with a jab cross and it's a good way to go forward with like 4 straight punches if your opponent doesn't step off to an angle. That being said, I think wing chun doesn't have a good competitive sparring culture and they don't seem open enough to changing their style.
The main problem with all these styles is they have too many sparring restrictions like you say. No punches to the face is the worst in my opinion.
I also wish that I started in muay thai or BJJ a long time ago. I trained martial arts as a kid and then lost my passion cuz it wasn't providing me with a realistic system. I didn't even know that muay thai existed and I never would have thought grappling was important. MMA is great but I think the striking among the top athletes is improving and still needs to improve.
spare us all this nonsence .
ReplyDeleteyouths need to start learning muay thai way before they shave. thats out side of thailand.
organization and efficiency are not part of the thai mindset.
ReplyDeleteimpulsiveness and hyperacitivity are deeply imbeded in the thai charecter.
lets all smile - sa bai -sa bai --mai pen rai .