Sunday, July 17, 2011

Overtraining - How many times a day should you really be working out?

It's very normal for guys to come to Thailand and do Muay Thai twice a day, with maybe some Strength and Conditioning or Bodyfit in the morning and MMA at night.  Some people even go to the gym and lift weights with the Thai Hulk between workouts and do a 6k run to warm up.

The Thai trainers will tell you that you need to train twice a day six days a week and you'll feel like you're not working hard enough if you don't.  But maybe there isn't a word in Thai for "overtraining."  The average Thai fighter retires when he is 25 years old and starts teaching because their bodies can't handle it anymore.  Some trainers still fight once in a while, but mainly for some quick money.

What is Overtraining and how to do you know if you are:

"Overtraining is a physical, behavioral, and emotional condition that occurs when the volume and intensity of an individual's exercise exceeds their recovery capacity. They cease making progress, and can even begin to lose strength and fitness. Overtraining is a common problem in weight training, but it can also be experienced by runners and other athletes." - Wikipedia.


Loss of Muscle due to long training sessions:

Over training also causes muscle loss.  Ever wonder why most Thai Fighters are super skinny and weigh only 60kg  - it's because their sessions are too long and they train too often.  There's a word for it that I can't remember right now, but it sounds like "emusculated" or something - where your body starts cannibalizing your own muscle, literally eating itself away for energy.

Studies show that you should never train for more than 1 hour.  At 45 minutes your body starts to eat away at it's own muscle, so anything over 90 minutes is terrible for you.  An hour and a half class is okay since you spend half of it warming up, stretching, wrapping your hands but anything more is terrible for your muscles.

Solutions to the problem would be:  Make sure you sip something that includes BCAAs and Glutamine during your workout such as Scivation Xtend.  Drink a Whey Protein shake immediately, as in within 10 minutes of finishing your workout.


100 Pushups After Every Muay Thai Session:

The other problem with traditional muay thai classes is they have you do 10 pushups between every round of bagwork and padwork during the 1 minute you are supposed to be getting water and recovering between rounds.  Then at the end of the each workout every single day, twice a day, they have you do 100-200 pushups.  The benefits of it is to push you harder during your workout, and develop punching power.  However this eats away at your muscle as well since it never has time to grow or recover.

Solution to the 100 Pushups a day dilemma:  Simple, instead of doing normal pushups every day, switch it up.  Your trainer won't mind as long as you are doing something.  You can do situps between rounds, and at the end of the session you can change it up daily.  For me I alternate between explosive pushups one day, upside down shoulder pushups the next, normal pushups another day, chin ups, then pull ups.

I couldn't find a good video on youtube to demonstrate the explosive pushups and upside down pushups so I just made one.




Cortisol and Training Balance:  "For many athletes the delicate balance of training and recovery poses a significant dilemma – to go fast, you have to train hard, but going too hard without adequate recovery will just make you slow. Push too hard and you end up with the undesirable elevation in cortisol and drop in testosterone. Athletes who excel are those who become adept at balancing the three primary components of their program - training, diet, and recovery."


So how many times a day should you train?

Well, if you're only here for 2 weeks then I can understand why you want to squeeze in as much training as possible, and maybe even a private lesson in between classes.  My advise is that if you are going to train more than once a day, do it for technique.  I personally think doing Muay Thai morning and afternoon is counter productive and will damage you in the long term.  If you want to train hard, I'd suggest, Muay Thai in the morning, eat/rest, followed by any of the following: run/cardio, mma/Brazilian jiu-jitsu, weights, or strength and conditioning. Definetely not all of the above.  And rest at least one day a week.  

Unfortunately Thai's don't understand the concept of over training, muscle recovery, or growth, since it's just the way they've always done it.  They will think you are lazy, especially if you are training for a fight.  My suggestion is to find a good balance of being motivated to train hard, rest, and recovery and show them that you are training hard, just smart.

I used google translate to figure out how to write "overtrain, muscle growth, recovery"  in Thai, hopefully it'll help the Thai trainers understand:  ฝึกซ้อมมากไปกล้ามเนื้อการเจริญเติบโตของการกู้คืน

Warm Regards,

Johnny at My Fight Camp

16 comments:

  1. Planning on doing the morning muay thai sessions following by the evening grappling classes at TMT mon-fri. Also hoping to scatter 2-3 weightlifting sessions in there throughout the week with the weekend off.

    If I have my diet under control, ie. eating lots of protein supplements and meats, would you still say that is too much? I'm 25 and consider myself to be in good shape. Currently 5'10 and 165lbs right now, but worried about shrinking down to 150 or less with all the training.

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  2. Steve, how long do you plan on staying for? That'll make a difference.

    If you want your schedule I would say to concentrate on technique during the evening grappling instead of strength and definetely do the alternating pushup schedule as mentioned above. For lifting weights, I would just do one day a week, Saturdays and make it a heavy weights, 5 seconds up/down day just for muscle growth.

    I currently only lift weights once a week and it works fine for me.

    -Johnny

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  3. I am planning on training for at least 2-3 months in Phuket. So I'm definitely aware of the chance of overtraining.

    I was also contemplating using a mon/tues and thurs/sat training schedule with the Wednesday and Sunday off. That way the body will get a recovery day twice a week.

    Have you tried tinkering with the 5 day straight training schedule or do you find it works best for you? Thanks for the reply.

    Steve

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  4. Hey Steve,

    I think your idea for resting Wednesday and Sundays is definetely good, especially if you're here for 3 months.

    What I've been doing is training for 6 days on with just sundays off unless I feel sluggish or over trained then I randomly take a day off, usually a thursday. But I think your idea where you schedule a day off is a great one, that way you'll never run into the problem in the first place.

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  5. I figure I can plan as much as possible, but it really comes down to how I am feeling during the training etc. I'm sure different people react to various training regimens.

    Thanks for the help Johnny, I'm sure I'll be picking your brain for some more advice before I get to Phuket.

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  6. Hi,
    I plan on doing the Phuket Top Team White-to-Blue Belt certification BJJ program for 3 months. It's going to be 7x BJJ Gi sessions per week and 2x wrestling/submission grappling session per week. Rest on Sundays.

    I wanted to do the Strength & Conditioning Program as well. Do you think that is too much training based on your experience?

    I've been to Tiger Muay Thai in the past but I didn't come in shape. I'm coming in in decent shape at least this time (4x per week Crossfit & 3x per week 3-mile runs)

    I don't plan to do anything Monday - Sat except for eat right, train, sleep alot and watch movies.

    thanks for your advice. I got a lot out of your book!

    Jericho

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Hey Jericho, I would recommend not doing any strength & conditioning. A lot of instructors say that before being a purple belt, it's a poor use of time and it leads you to using your strength instead of technique.

      If you choose to do it, don't do it the first week. Do just BJJ and by week 3 if you want to add S&C then do it.

      Make sure you take Pink Himalayan Sea Salt to prevent adrenal fatigue and eat a lot of healthy fat such as coconut meat and milk. Good luck and have fun!

      Delete
  7. Hey mate,

    I've been at Tiger about a week now and have been training pretty hard, like 3 times a day. I have to say, I'm with you on over training here.

    What do you think if I stick with private sessions in the morning (just boxing) and weight work or more boxing in the evening, like 5-6 days a week. Not really interested in BJJ or Muay Thai, just really want to work on my boxing?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I would cut out the 3 sessions a day for sure. It's a bit of a shame not to do Muay Thai while you're in Thailand, but if your aim is to be a pro boxer I understand. Privates in the morning and a session in the afternoon might be good, just don't do the same body parts for weights everyday.

      Delete
  8. AnonymousMay 30, 2013

    Overtraining sucks but happens because the sport can become addictimg, ie I trained mt 4 days a week for 90mins. Soon after mt I'd go to mma /Valentino for 2.5 hours straight go home and lift heavy. NEEDLESS TO SAY I slipped a disc and was out for a while lol

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. AnonymousMay 30, 2013

      *Vale tudo..... I also was doing bjj and krav maga on the side

      Delete
  9. AnonymousJune 29, 2013

    Hey buddy,

    Nice blogg! Good stuff!

    So, once a day, 3 months... Did you drop any weight / inches in that, I assume it's enough to get pretty fit right?

    Thnx

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Hey glad you're liking the blog, if you like the blog, you'll love the book www.12WeeksinThailand.com - anyway training Muay Thai has always gotten me in good shape and I would lose weight and fat but it wasn't very sustainable, everytime I would go back to the U.S. or get injured the weight would come straight back. How that I'm eating Bulletproof/Paleo, the weight is coming off faster, and more importantly, staying off.

      Delete
  10. I was thinking about going for the 3 month white to blue bjj at phuket top team. You think there is time to do some Muay Thai as well? To be honest I've had some issues with a heart arrhythmia lately that has sapped my fitness level. I'm hoping to regain some before I go and more when I'm there. Is the two per day schedule too much you think?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Hey J, the white belt to blue belt program is already extremely intense. You'll be able to do a few classes of Muay Thai while you're there just to see how you like it for next time, but it's unlikely you'll have energy to do it often.

      Delete
  11. Hey, great article. Thanks!
    I've been doing Muay Thai for 5 years now (late starter, I'm 35).
    I'll be in Phuket for 2 months this winter to train.
    When I was the most enthusiastic my weekly schedule looked like this: Tuesday morning & evening, Thursday the same, and then Saturday morning only. All 90min sessions. Then on one of the days, mostly Saturday or Sunday some weight lifting. But this was some 3 years ago and nowadays I do 2 a week plus 1 weight lifting. I'm hesitating if I should go for the twice-a-day training in Thailand with Wed and Sun as fixed resting days or should I just go for one session a day, 6 days a week? Thing is that if I pay it in advance and then can't keep up I'd feel pretty bad, but at the same time I want myself a bit of a challenge too...
    Thanks man

    ReplyDelete

Hey if you've read this far, you might as well at least leave a comment. Even just to say what's up! If you have any questions about training in Thailand just ask it here in the comments and I'll answer so everyone can benefit from it.